Talk:Settitle (Slash Command)

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Badge numbers/listings

http://www.paragonwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Settitle_(Slash_Command)&oldid=106441

Something needs to be done. It hasn't been updated in ... years. --Konoko 19:48, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Taking the lazy way out. Trying to see if I can get a dump of the badges and their id numbers that I can then easily format and dump back into the article. --Eabrace 21:04, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I just made this based on the info in their database. It probably needs some revision though before inclusion in the article. Notably, the day badges aren't included; they had them all listed as 9999. Also, the badges are listed for both hero and villain even if they only apply to one side. -- Sekoia 21:36, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I just replaced the subpage /listing I'd made before with a redirect to this page, since the subpage was outdated to the point of being erroneous by now. -- Sekoia 11:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
Might it be better to just not include the list? It constantly gets outdated and we rarely update it. It might be better just to refer people to CIT, since they do keep theirs updated. -- Sekoia 21:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Or follow the Talk:Confuse example and put it on a separate page, which the subpage qualifies as. this --Konoko 22:45, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Placement wasn't my concern here. This information changes at a very high frequency. We never update it. As soon as they put another badge out, the whole page will be outdated and it's unlikely we'll get around to fixing it for another year or two. Meanwhile, CIT keeps theirs pretty up-to-date. CIT is clearly providing a better, more accurate resource; why not just point at theirs instead? (Especially since we are in the Titan network together.) -- Sekoia 23:07, 17 December 2008 (UTC) (Though you're right, it'd probably be better put on a separate page if we do keep it. -- Sekoia 23:08, 17 December 2008 (UTC))
I'd support just pointing at CIT - it's a sister-site through Titan Network, so it's a good workaround to having to constantly update this page. -- Agge (talk) 03:59, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Round Two?

I'd like to revisit the discussion of adding this list to the wiki. I had read the previous thoughts about just keeping links to the other sites that do the badge tracking, but there are a couple downsides to that. First, Badge-Hunter only lists the settitle numbers for Gladiator badges as a courtesy. Other than that, settitle numbers aren't used for maintaining that site at all. And second, even though CIT has the numbers listed for each badge, there's no reference for everything all in one numerical list without skipping through all the different badge categories.

My vision for this article would make it value-added rather than just a simple list, including the categories and Issues when the badges were added, as well as a way to indicate where known inactive badges would go, which CIT doesn't show. Maintaining it shouldn't be as much of a problem as might have been in the past because we've already been through the Great Badge Restructuring of Issue 13, and there's currently a large gap in the numbers where I'm betting the Going Rogue badges will go. Even if there's some shifting that's needed later on, large numbers of badges really don't get added all that frequently -- mostly they're just veteran awards and events that get plugged into small gaps in the list.

So what do y'all say? Can we leave it in this time? --Blondeshell 16:18, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

For a list this large, we need a semi-automatic way of generating it. If CiT and the rest of the Titan Network has the information we need in their database, then we just need to query it once a month or so.
Also, my new job has me helping end users craft reports. And often they need more than one to see the information they want. Therefore, several articles:
  • List of settitle no group
  • List of settitle group by category
  • List of settitle group by Issue
etc, etc, etc --Konoko 17:04, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
The current way the table is set up is supposed to allow for sortable columns. I think it's broken at the moment because I have a spacer row where I left off my updates, but otherwise it should work. There was mention on the forums of getting some kind of a database dump in a wiki-friendly format, but I don't know if anything came of that. My guess is that the initial work by the CIT crew has to be done manually anyway, just like this would be. Like I mentioned before, there really aren't many new badges added under normal circumstances, so we'll be able to tell when that happens and know that the list needs to be updated.--Blondeshell 21:08, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
My understanding in the past was that the settitle numbers were very unstable. Even low-numbered badges would often get juggled when new ones got added, for no apparent reason. Is that no longer the case?
A lot of the ideas you have for this sound great, but why should they be done in the wiki instead of in CIT? And especially if we're going to write scripts that can pull the information from CIT... why not just make those scripts part of CIT and let people interact with it there? This really, really sounds like a great set of features for CIT. Maybe someone should take these ideas to the forums and see what feedback the CIT crew has? If they don't have the interest or manpower for making these ideas happen in CIT, then I'd be much more open to the possibility of implementing some of it here. But for now, it really doesn't seem to me that the wiki is the best tool for this job. -- Sekoia 23:59, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
For the record, I am not changing my vote from the last time. IMO, CIT does this better than we do/could, and CIT is a sister-site to Paragon Wiki, on the same Titan Network that we are on. Unless it's ridiculously simple to do, just link to CIT instead. ~ AGGE talk/cons 02:58, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
I've only recently started trying to understand the settitle numbering structure, so I can't speak from experience about how much things might have moved around in the past. I would guess that, if older badges did move around, they stayed within the same issue bloc order, because the overall badge listings haven't changed their relative order except to insert new ones. I agree that it could be really easy for the list to be naturally available on CIT because of the other listings they already have. The only things that couldn't be included are the inactive/disabled badges. If nothing else, though, I suppose I could just move the list to my userspace so it becomes my own little project instead of everyone else having to worry about it. --Blondeshell 03:20, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
CIT does actually provide an inactive badges list, though not all badges have a known number. So it might be feasible for them to provide a combined list as well.
In any case, it sounds like the settitle numbers are only a smaller component to what you want to do that happened to be a convenient framework to start with. The overall goal for you is to provide a list of all badges, with information about each one including settitle, issue released, type (accolade, achievement, etc.), hero/villain availability, whether (and when) the badge was removed, etc., is that correct? If so, I think most of that is wiki-doable, but I wouldn't recommend doing it manually. I'd recommend working up some sort of template that can be maintained within the badge article, like a short infobox, that incorporates all of that information on a per-badge basis. That way, all of this information is available there as well. Then, we can easily generate the full listing using DPL. Since it would be automatically generated, it would be automatically updated. And since the information is maintained within the primary location for each badge's information, they'll very likely stay fairly current. Meanwhile, we can keep an eye on the settitles for a few issues to see how stable they are now, and if they really are fairly stable now, then maybe at some later point we can consider including the settitles in those templates as well. What do you think? -- Sekoia 14:26, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Settitle_(Slash_Command)/listing&oldid=106447
715 Tourist Badge Visitor Badge
When did Tourist change from 715 to 1014? --Konoko 21:42, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
There was a good chunk of the list that got bumped down several hundred spots recently, or not too long ago, to make room for these new exploration badges and (I'm assuming) all the Going Rogue content that will be added. In fact, even that link to CIT is out-of-date because the actual current number for Tourist is 1215. --Blondeshell 01:19, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Assumption 1

CiT has settitle numbers updated more frequently. If user wants settitle for particular badge, refer there.

solution 1

Add FAQ

FAQ
Where can I find the settitle number for a particular badge?
Find the badge and goto its City Info Tracker page.
  1. Badge
  2. CoH_Achievement_Badges
  3. Tourist_Badge
  4. Under External Links:
  5. Which points to http://cit.cohtitan.com/badgedetail/150
  6. And CiT has SetTitle #: 1014
Why aren't the settitle numbers listed here?
Nearly every Issue there have been additional badges added that moved their settitle numbers around.
City Info Tracker has a far more up to date listing of settitle numbers that cannot be easily added to this wiki.

solution 2

Include 'guide'

Example

Tourist Badge has a settitle of 1014 as reported by City Info Tracker's Tourist Badge page.

/settitle 1014


Information and table structure

Sortable tables would be nice

Settitle# Badge name Category Issue Active
### [[Badge name]] [[Achievement]] [[Issue 5]] Y/N

--Konoko 17:04, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Now they are sortable. ~ AGGE talk/cons 02:39, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Settitle Numbers Demystified

Here's the lowdown on what settitle numbers mean and why they shift around.

When the devs make a new build, there are some automated processes that generate the .bin files from their source files, which are basically comma delimited lists, probably exported from Excel if what we heard from the powers group is any indication. The automated part gathers up all of the files and compiles them into a binary format that the game can use.

At game startup, it reads badges.bin into an array in memory. This array contains the category, the ID number (see below), hero and villain display names, and the icon. It does not contain the badge description text -- that is one of the very few localized strings in the game that is stored completely server-side.

The number you give to the /settitle command is an index into this array in memory. That means that whatever order the badges happen to be physically stored in the file, that's the number you need to give it. This order is also used for displaying the badges on the information screen.

When new badges are added, they often come in batches. Each batch is stored in a different source file. The naming scheme for these source files has changed a few times and isn't completely consistent. The program that creates the .bin file scoops up all of the source files in alphabetical order and generates the resulting table. This is why the settitle order seems to make no logical sense, because we are missing a crucial piece of information: the source file name that each badge is defined in. Within each source file, the order of the badges is just whatever order the dev who wrote it put them in, but that set of badges will always be stable relative to each other.

Here's the full list:

Starting Badge Ending Badge Source File
Dreamwalker (0) Triumphant (205) BADGES_COVUPDATE.DEF
EarlyPowerGrantBadge* (206) GotRespec* (221) BADGES_UPDATE11.DEF
Marshal (222) ComboCostume* (304) BADGES_UPDATE12.DEF
Trustworthy (305) Partygoer (408) BADGES_UPDATE13.DEF
InventionPopUpA* (409) Merrymaker (488) BADGES_UPDATE14.DEF
Vanguard Operative (489) Master At Arms (527) BADGES_UPDATE15.DEF
All For One, One For All (528) Entertainer (636) BADGES_UPDATE16.DEF
Dark Fiend (637) CI_City_Representative_Cape_AP* (651) BADGES_UPDATE1600.DEF
VillainEAT_SL1_Comp* (652) Surefooted (716) BADGES_UPDATE17.DEF
FirstMeritReward* (717) Jubilant (933) BADGES_UPDATE18.DEF
Exultant (934) Veteran96a* (1060) BADGES_UPDATE1800.DEF
FirstDayJobGlobal* (1061) Meticulous (1296) BADGES_UPDATE1850.DEF
Column Breaker (1297) Vanguard_Sigil_CC* (1335) BADGES_UPDATE19.DEF
Weapon Master (1336) Partner (1520) BADGES_UPDATE1900.DEF
Burkholder's Bane (1521) Heart of the Hamidon (1724) BADGES_UPDATE2.DEF
Land, Sea & Air (1725) PraetorianInvasionRecheck* (1743) BADGES_UPDATE2000.DEF
Strawweight Champion (1744) Celebrant (1754) BADGES_UPDATE4.DEF
Volunteer Firefighter (1755) Geas of the Kind Ones (1809) BADGES_UPDATE5.DEF

* Hidden badge used for internal tracking

In that table you can see the order is based on the (hidden) filename of the source file that the badges are defined in. If they continue the 4-digit current naming scheme based on issue number, then 1744+ will be shifted back with every new issue or sub-issue, until issue 40.

Badges are also sometimes added into the game ahead of the issue in which they become available to players. Veteran Badges especially are done this way.


  • Each badge does have a field called "Index", which is an ID number that uniquely identifies the badge. These seem to be assigned when each badge is created, however they are not visible to us in any way except by digging in the files. As far as I can tell they seem to only be used by the server, and by client-server communication (which is why your title stays the same even when you log in after the settitle numbers have changed). So they really don't help us, except perhaps as a database key resistant to badge name changes, since they are stable. Why they didn't just use the ID number as the settitle parameter I have no idea, but this is what we have to work with.

--Supa Troll 18:15, 2 June 2011 (UTC)