Talk:Dual Blades

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Contents

NOTE

Do not update the article with the tables below until I11 goes live. The powers need updating though, have at those! --Konoko

I added a redirect from "Dual Blade" (singular) to the main article --Ti Taz 13:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Power Tables

Greydog made a suggestion below, and I've added it to the power tables to see how it looks. While keeping Pythe's original combo tables might be redundant, some players might be able to understand the combos better in that format, myself included. My vote is to keep both. --Konoko 18:36, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Hm... they just don't seem wordy enough. Added words. --Konoko
Your ideas intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter...--GreyDog 20:44, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
I'll second that, I like this one. The only thing we're missing is what the effect of each combo is. That, I figure, could easily be summed up where the current table exists with a simpler table or bulleted list. -Pythe 11:19, 5 November 2007 (EST)
The Combo effects are relatively short, eg. "+Damage", what about an extra row under the header with that information? -Doctor Magus 12:18, 19 November 2007 (EST)

Layout

Hrm... with the new Wikia skins and 1280x1024 resoultion, this is what the DB article looks like with the new tables laid out below. --Konoko 28 November 2007

That's pretty easy to fix with a clr. Aggelakis 00:19, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

All GIFs, approx. 150KB each

Image:Dual Blades layout 1280x1024 Scrapper.gif|Top of page, TOC squishes Scrapper table Image:Dual Blades layout 1280x1024 Brute.gif|lower down, TOC not a problem Image:Dual Blades layout 1600x1200.gif|1600x1200, not a problem Image:Dual Blades layout 1440x900.gif|1440x900, minor annoyance


Scrapper (original table)

Power Level Effect
DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash 1 Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal).
DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice 1 Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).
DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike 2 Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal), Foe -Defense.
DualBlades AoEBridge.png Typhoon's Edge 6 Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal).
DualBlades FollowUp.png Blinding Feint 8 Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal) Self +Damage +Accuracy.
DualBlades Taunt.png Confront 12 Ranged, Foe Taunt
DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice 18 Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal), Foe Knockdown.
DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike 26 Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).
DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts 32 Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).

Scrapper (with combos)

Power Level Effect Weaken
{{{Effect1}}}
Empower
{{{Effect2}}}
Attack Vitals
{{{Effect3}}}
Sweep
{{{Effect4}}}
DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash 1 Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal). 1 1    
DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice 1 Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).       2
DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike 2 Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal), Foe -Defense. 2 2 1  
DualBlades AoEBridge.png Typhoon's Edge 6 Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal). 3     3
DualBlades FollowUp.png Blinding Feint 8 Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal) Self +Damage +Accuracy.   3    
DualBlades Taunt.png Confront 12 Ranged, Foe Taunt        
DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice 18 Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal), Foe Knockdown.     3  
DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike 26 Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).     2  
DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts 32 Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).       1

Scrapper (alternate text)

Power Level Effect Weaken
Foe -ToHit -Def
Empower
Self +Damage +Acc
Attack Vitals
Cone +DoT
Sweep
PBAoE +Knockdown
DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash 1 Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal). Begin Begin    
DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice 1 Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).       Continue
DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike 2 Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal), Foe -Defense. Continue Continue Begin  
DualBlades AoEBridge.png Typhoon's Edge 6 Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal). Finish     Finish
DualBlades FollowUp.png Blinding Feint 8 Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal) Self +Damage +Accuracy.   Finish    
DualBlades Taunt.png Confront 12 Ranged, Foe Taunt        
DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice 18 Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal), Foe Knockdown.     Finish  
DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike 26 Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).     Continue  
DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts 32 Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).       Begin

GreyDog's out-of-his-gourd idea

This is a tricky concept to get across. Personally, I find the Power Name/Icon confusing, in isolation. They only way I really get a sense of a power is seeing it in the context of the whole powerset. So, an ideal chart for me would look something like this... --Greydog

Powers Weaken Empower Attack Vitals Sweep
DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash 1 1
DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice 2
DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike 2 2 1
DualBlades AoEBridge.png Typhoon's Edge 3 3
DualBlades FollowUp.png Blinding Feint 3
Confront
DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice 2
DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike 3
DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts 1

I could be out of my gourd, however. Feel free to ignore my comment if I'm in the minority.--GreyDog 17:19, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

No no no, nothing is ignored if it gives someone a ridiculously brilliant idea. Observe: The Power Table section is supposed to give a concise yet meaningful list of powers. Your table could be tacked on to the end of each power table. --Konoko 20:02, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Alternate presentation

Combined Combo Table

This seems reasonable, if hard to read. Perhaps seperate each combo into its own table? Or color each main rows alternately? -Pythe

Still hard to read with colors. Comments? -Pythe

While I like icons, I'd rather have the names there, but Tanker/Scrapper/Brute is a little too wide. --Konoko 20:12, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
I find this the easiest one to read and distinguish between Combo orders for the ATs, I'd re-arrange the Combo Names so they were alphabetical, but that's just me. --Mekk
I find this one the easiest to read as well. - Snorii 21:37, 20 November 2007 (EST)
I like this table (below). I also like the "Scrapper Alternate" above out of the three in the previous section. --Ti Taz 13:02, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Combo Name Effect Attacks
Archetypeicon tanker.pngArchetypeicon scrapper.pngV archetypeicon brute.png V archetypeicon stalker.png
Empower Self +Damage +Acc (less than Build Up) DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash DualBlades BuildUp.png Build Up
DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike DualBlades AssassinBlades.png Assassin's Blades
DualBlades FollowUp.png Blinding Feint DualBlades Placate.png Placate
Weaken Foe -ToHit, -Def DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike
DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice
DualBlades AoEBridge.png Typhoon's Edge DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts
Attack Vitals Cone Minor Damage over Time(Lethal) DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice
DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash
DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice
Sweep PBAoE Damage(Lethal), Knockdown DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts DualBlades BuildUp.png Build Up
DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice DualBlades AssassinBlades.png Assassin's Blades
DualBlades AoEBridge.png Typhoon's Edge DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike

Separate tables

I used class="wikitable" to get the general table formatting (thin borders, grey backgrounds on headers). Comments? Suggestions? --Konoko 02:00, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

Looks much better like this. I'm still questioning my use of colors in the tables. At the very least they ought to be changed to a paler hue, like the blue in the nav bar. Now to add a little more detail to the combo effects! -Pythe 14:42, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

I'm thinking about combining the combo attack tables... I'll throw an idea at the bottom here, after I sketch it out here... -Pythe 15:13, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Brute, Tanker, Scrapper

Combo Name Empower Weaken Attack Vitals Sweep
Effect +Damage (Like Build Up) Enemy -ToHit, -Def Cone Minor Damage Over Time(Lethal) PBAoE Minor Damage(Lethal), Knockdown
Open DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts
Continue DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Strike DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice
Finish DualBlades FollowUp.png Blinding Feint DualBlades AoEBridge.png Typhoon's Edge DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike DualBlades HighLow.png Typhoon's Edge

Stalker

Combo Name Empower Weaken Attack Vitals Sweep
Effect +Damage (Like Build Up) Enemy -ToHit, -Def Cone Minor Damage Over Time(Lethal) PBAoE Minor Damage(Lethal), Knockdown
Open DualBlades BuildUp.png Build Up DualBlades Special2.png Sweeping Strike DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice DualBlades BuildUp.png Build Up
Continue DualBlades AssassinBlades.png Assassin's Blades DualBlades ModerateOpening.png Power Slice DualBlades LightOpening.png Nimble Slash DualBlades AssassinBlades.png Assassin's Blades
Finish DualBlades Placate.png Placate DualBlades HighLow.png One Thousand Cuts DualBlades Special1.png Vengeful Slice DualBlades ModerateBridge.png Ablating Slice


Error in combo for Stalker?

I am running a DB/Willpower Stalker currently and am noticing that the Attack Vitals combo is Power Slice, Nimble Slash, and Vengeful Slice, while listed here as beginning with Ablating Strike. --??

O RLY? No wonder my Attack Vitals combo doesn't work. I'd have figured this out if I hadn't wasted all my vetspecs. Smilies frown.gif Fix it (or I will someday) --Konoko
Ok, fixed... Shall I do the main page? --Omnedon 02:23, 20 November 2007 (EST)
Not yet, leave the article as it is for now. I'm still fleshing out the other tables. Keep this table up-to-date though, then we can update the article all at once when I11 goes live. --Konoko 21:30, 20 November 2007 (EST)
Konoko, are you planning to update these now that I11 is out? I was getting rather confused looking things up in Mids Hero Designer, looking at this page, and reading the little info boxes on my DB/Nin stalker. –- Ti Taz 12:45, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Combo terms

We need to make sure the same term is used every time that a term is used. Discuss! --Konoko 21:44, 20 November 2007 (EST)

Term Alt Meaning
Opener Open, Begin, start Power that open/begins/is-the-start of a combo
Bridge Continue, mid Power that continues a combo
Finisher End, Finish Power that ends/completes a combo
Orange Combo Indicator Circle Orange Circle, duck l'orange Indicator that appears on a power (in the power tray) to indicate which power is next in a combo.
I say we go with: Opener, Bridge, Finisher. The complete and verbose description for the circle would be "Orange Combo Indicator Circle," or "Orange Circle" for short.--GreyDog 10:24, 21 November 2007 (EST)
Right-o --Konoko
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